Ryzen 5 3600, AIO would be front mounted in a Corsair Air 540 case. The CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i RGB PLATINUM is an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler with a 280mm radiator and vivid RGB lighting thats built for extreme CPU cooling. Dark Rock Pro 3, Motherboard: MSI Z170a KRAIT GAMING, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 4x4gb DDR4-2666 MHz, Storage: SanDisk SSD Plus 240gb + OCZ Vertex 180 480 GB + Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM, Video Card: EVGA GTX 970 SSC, Case: Fractal Design Define S, Power Supply: Seasonic Focus+ Gold 650w Yay, Keyboard: Logitech G710+, Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum, Headphones: B&O H9i, Monitor: LG 29um67 (2560x1080 75hz freesync). This item Corsair H115i RGB Platinum AIO Liquid CPU Cooler,280mm,Dual ML140 PRO RGB PWM Fans,Intel 115x/2066,AMD AM4/TR4. The CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i is a mind-blowing model from this renowned brand that is well known for its worthwhile and compatible offerings.EVGA’s CLC 280 combines tried-and-true cooling technology with high-speed fans to produce the next-generation 2x 140mm cooling system. Cooling The Corsair User Forums > Corsair Product Discussion > Cooling: H115i PRO vs EVGA CLC 280....Pump asthestics only recommendation. The cooling performance of 280mm AIOs can be … No, the EK predator line is typically much more expensive. But when it comes to RGB features, the Corsair H115i RGB Platinum is the best on the market. Please consider becoming our Patron to support us: http://www.patreon.com/gamersnexus** Please like, comment, and subscribe for more! Looking at my signature are we now? The Kraken X62 is the same Asetek OEM, so the pump is the same, it has better aesthetic IMO, although it comes with better fans than the Corsair and EVGA. alfrederson Corsair once again looks to take the closed-loop cooler crown with the new Hydro Series H115i Platinum. Review: Corsair H115i Platinum 280mm liquid cooler. BardiaMGTGC H115i PRO vs EVGA CLC 280....Pump asthestics only recommendation. "The EK-MLC is going to replace the current EK-XLC family of products, which means that all EK-XLC Predator models of the 1st generation are being discontinued and have reached the end of life status as of today". I love computer hardware and feel free to ask me anything about that (or phones). @Ethocreeper How is the evga aio doing? i shop from amazon uk) and with max fan speed evga outperforms corsair. Corsair’s Hydro H100i RGB Platinum and Hydro H115i RGB Platinum use ... 2000 RPM as well as a 280-mm radiator. Find a Retailer Find a Retailer. also if theres another 280 radiator that is at that price range and its better tell me, i think i will be going with the evga but am just posting this to be sure. Full review: http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2788-evga-clc-280-review-vs-nzxt-x62-corsair-h115iLike our content? Any advertisements or sponsorships are disclosed within the video (\"this video is brought to you by\") and above the fold in the description. ... Amex Offers (Platinum Cards): Spend $250+ at Instacart.com, Get $50 Credit. Posted in Storage Devices, By 280mm found in: EVGA CLC 280 Liquid CPU Cooler, Corsair iCUE H115i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler, Streacom DA2 Silver Mini ITX Case, No PSU, Corsair Hydro H115i RGB Platinum CPU Cooler, Gigabyte Aorus 280 Liquid CPU Cooler,.. Started 27 minutes ago Find a Retailer Find a Retailer. NZXT’s highest RPM is 1700, landing it at 34.63C delta T. Moving down to 1050RPM, we see EVGA start to lose some ground against NZXT’s X62 unit. corsair h115i pro review I think nzxt customized the pcb that controls the pump tho, whereas corsair definitely did not. Still in middle or high school? Shinzok Member. Examples: And make sure you do it by hitting the quote button at the bottom left of my post, and not the one inside the editor! TechChuan Case: 011 Dynamic XL/ Phanteks Evolv X: Audio Device(s) The one thing I am not sure about is the software comparison. The noise levels are quiet, peaking at 20dBa. The H115i Pro - another new AIO from Corsair, this time its a 280mm unit. CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i AIO Liquid Cooler. they both have a 5 year warranty. i replaced the fans with ML (nonRGB Our hypothesis to this 2C deficit against NZXT’s cooler is that EVGA likely loses power toward the low-end of the PQ curve, which is strictly a function of the unique fan design. I've not been keeping my ear to the ground so I'm not … EVGA CLC 280mm or Corsair H115i PRO/RGB? However, a unique fan design and a square block with rounded edges gives EVGA’s coolers a bit of a different feel to them. Started 5 minutes ago But please do not ask me anything about Networking, programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff. This or EVGA CLC 280 for $91? The only practical difference between them is the fans. Do you have a source for that? I still have an original H100 (non-i) in use. Not sure about evga tho, And my refurb h100i worked for 3 years and is still working. ... Amex Offers (Platinum Cards): Spend $250+ at Instacart.com, Get $50 Credit. Furthermore, it comes equipped with a copper base which transfers heat effectively. If you’re looking only at performance get the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II or EVGA CLC 280mm or 360mm model. EVGA’s CLC 280 combines tried-and-true cooler technology with high-speed fans to … When we look at max RPMs, Corsair’s cooler can hit 2300RPM with its SP series fans, landing it at 33.4C load. Features: This article will answer questions regarding how COVID-19 might affect you and Corsair… Uknown0002 Harrison D By EVGA’s CLC line is based on the latest generation Asetek pump, which is used in some of the more popular options out there, including the Corsair H115i and NZXT Kraken x62. With the two magnetic levitation PWM fans, the overall system manages to give a blast of color for an optimal experience. Matching first against NZXT’s Kraken X62, the EVGA 280mm CLC, when matching RPMs to 1500, performs approximately 0.75C better than NZXT’s Kraken X62. plus evga has the rgb logo and the control software (if the corsair is better i dont care about it). Linus Media Group is not associated with these services, am between 2 coolers (EVGA CLC 280mm & Corsair H115i), i dont give a shit about noise so what ive read from gamers nexus (link). Buy whatever product is best for you, not what product is "best" for the market. Display(s) LG 27GN850/ MSI 27 inch VA panel. Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 1, 2018. Ram is bugging? Best 280mm AIO Liquid CPU Coolers. EVGA CLC 280mm vs Corsair H115i. The major selling point of the H115i Pro, however, is just how quiet it is. Started 4 minutes ago A 280mm AIO comes with a 280mm Radiator (~312mm in reality), two 140mm fans, and a CPU water block that houses the pump too (in most of the AIOs). For example, the EVGA CLC 240 and the Aerocool P7-L240 both outperformed the H115i Pro despite costing less money. Member Benefits; Member Directory; New Member Registration Form For the most part, this is a shallow victory. Mean failure time in my experience is about 10 months. The Corsair H115i RGB is an all-in-one cooler that comes with many benefits to keep your PC using a blissful event. Added to Your Shopping Cart. Looking at the performance, we see Corsair’s H115i at 1500RPM is functionally identical to the Kraken X62, and falls within our test-to-test variance. We review EVGA's new CLC 280mm cooler vs. the Kraken X62 \u0026 Corsair H115i V2 liquid coolers. We do not ever produce paid content or \"sponsored content\" (meaning that the content is our idea and is not funded externally aside from whatever ad placement is in the beginning) and we do not ever charge manufacturers for coverage. Dec 10, 2010 5,276 1,061 136. Either option it would be recommended to replace the fans. Name- Posted in Troubleshooting, By NZXT is running at 35.49C delta T, with EVGA operating at 34.75C delta T. At the top-end, EVGA has more RPM headroom on its fans to support a higher speed, and therefore tops the charts at 32.86C delta T – pretty damn good, but again, very loud. Started 13 minutes ago About; Membership. Best 280mm AIO Liquid CPU Coolers. And if you really don't care about noise, you could strap some delta fans to it. However, a unique fan design and a square block with rounded edges gives EVGA’s coolers a bit of a different feel to them. As I said, there seriously is nothing here. This or EVGA CLC 280 for $91? We’ve got a known variance of approximately 0.5C in our results after accounting for calibration anyway, so these two coolers are more or less identical. The H115i Platinum I had (coolit pump) had basically the same style mounts as you pictured for the Asetek pump I just installed only days ago which I ordered new from Corsair … Started 36 minutes ago It could be dead on arrival, fail within the first month, or last 7 years without issue (not common). We review a new premium cooler from Corsair, the Corsair Hydro Series H115i Platinum. The radiator is generally made of aluminum, but some high-performance 280mm AIOs may come with fully copper radiators for better heat dissipation. Our comparison coolers are the Corsair H115i RGB Platinum, the DeepCool Gamer Storm Castle 280 RGB and the Cougar Helor 360. Posted in Troubleshooting, By Asetek AIO coolers have very unpredictable failure rates, I have a pile of dead ones in the basement. ivanom4 Posted in Power Supplies, By Sport and Recreation Law Association Menu. Posted in Troubleshooting, By Price is higher than for AIO solutions that come without or with limited RGB functionality but that’s the price to pay for all that shiny stuff. Or ... perhaps I just have the Texas version. I think it performs a bit better tho. The CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i RGB PLATINUM is an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler with a 280mm radiator and vivid RGB lighting thats built for extreme CPU cooling. It has significantly better lighting effects and a much smoother colour change. EVGA’s CLC 280mm cooler outperforms Corsair by about 1C when at 1500RPM. Posted in Cases and Mods, By Corsair H115i RGB Platinum AIO Liquid Cooler– The Story of a Thermally Optimized Cold Plate. Posted in CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory, By The noise levels are quiet, peaking at 20dBa. In short, they perform basically identically, as they both use the same pump. **Follow us in these locations for more gaming and hardware updates:t: http://www.twitter.com/gamersnexusf: http://www.facebook.com/gamersnexusw: http://www.gamersnexus.net/Host: Steve BurkeVideo: Andrew ColemanLinks to Amazon and Newegg are typically monetized on our channel (affiliate links) and may return a commission of sales to us from the retailer. 6 • 4. EVGA CLC 280mm vs Corsair H115i. Surface book 2 13" with an i7 8650u, 8gb RAM, 256 GB storage, and a GTX 1050, And if you're curious (or a stalker) I have a Just Black Pixel 2 XL 64gb, No you should't take an Ek predator, https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-is-announcing-modular-liquid-cooling-products/. CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i AIO Liquid Cooler. The Corsair and NZXT units are equal strictly in terms of cooling at this RPM, making Corsair the obvious choice if you don’t care for the LEDs. I've come down to the EVGA CLC 280 and the H115i (v2 I believe?) The CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i RGB PLATINUM is an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler with a 280mm radiator and vivid RGB lighting that’s built for extreme CPU cooling. Posted in Networking, Linus Media Group Features: For PC on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Corsair H115i vs EVGA CLC 280". Corsair fans are ungodly loud, and the EVGA fans have the most insanely stupid design. P.M. me! (Not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious ), Yea in like every review they show the interface, Idk if the polished one is out but I think it is, Also the logo is rgb and can be controlled from there software. If you want best performance you should get an EK predator, I'm pretty sure they'd be much better. I especially like SSDs. MY ACCOUNT LOG IN; Join Now | Member Log In. They are both Asetek OEM coolers, the only differences are the fans and aesthetic shrouds. The PCB customization was primarily to change the RGB control. CPU: Pentium G4400, CPU Cooler: Stock, Motherboard: MSI h110l Pro Mini AC, RAM: Hyper X Fury DDR4 1x8gb 2133 MHz, Storage: PNY CS1311 120gb SSD + two Segate 4tb HDDs in RAID 1, Video Card: Does Intel Integrated Graphics count?, Case: Fractal Design Node 304, Power Supply: Seasonic 360w 80+ Gold, Keyboard+Mouse+Monitor: Does it matter? Corsair h150i Pro 6x Corsair QL120 + 4x Corsair LL120/ Corsair h115i Platinum: Memory: 32 GB 4x8GB 4000CL15 Trident Z Royal/ 32 GB 3200 CL14 @3800 CL16 Team T Force Nighthawk: Video Card(s) Asus ROG Strix 2080 ti/ Titan XP: Storage: lots of SSD. This is unrelated to the product manufacturer. EVGA CLC 280 focuses on efficiency and increasing the flow rate of the coolant. EVGA CLC 280mm Review vs. NZXT X62, Corsair H115i - YouTube Messages: 21 Likes Received: 0 GPU: EVGA GTX 770 2GB. Well too bad there's nothing here... What? Of the three closed-loop coolers EVGA offers, the 280mm option is probably the best of the bunch in terms of price-to-performance as well as how it stacks up against its competition. Is the pump silent, as reviews have said or a bit more noisy like some users have said? Corsair link isn't very good, but I don't expect the EVGA software to be any better. they both have 5 years warranty and they are about the same price (evga 5 pound more so idk. The radiator is generally made of aluminum, but some high-performance 280mm AIOs may come with fully copper radiators for better heat dissipation. Make sure to quote me or tag me when responding to me, or I might not know you replied! Added to Your Shopping Cart. The updated H115i Platinum is a definite improvement, but NZXT's infinity mirror CPU block design was and still remains one of the most beautiful RGB implementations we’ve seen in any product. JacobGrooms123 I currently have an EVGA CLC 280 that I would like to replace, and I'm wondering how the Platinum is? as my AIO. Started 16 minutes ago 280mm found in: EVGA CLC 280 Liquid CPU Cooler, Corsair iCUE H115i ELITE CAPELLIX Liquid CPU Cooler, Streacom DA2 Silver Mini ITX Case, No PSU, Corsair Hydro H115i RGB Platinum CPU Cooler, Gigabyte Aorus 280 Liquid CPU Cooler,.. H115i Pro vs H150i Pro. Display(s) LG 27GN850/ MSI 27 inch VA panel. Sign up for a new account in our community. EVGA’s CLC line is based on the latest generation Asetek pump, which is used in some of the more popular options out there, including the Corsair H115i and NZXT Kraken x62. ... up top with a 280 or 360 in push/pull in the bottom. Upgrading PSU, do I need to replace the cables? Started 13 minutes ago Started 38 minutes ago This high-quality cooler, the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280mm, is available for under $100, and is the only cooler on our list to come under that price point. We review a new premium cooler from Corsair, the Corsair Hydro Series H115i Platinum. The EVGA CLC 280 is a robust 280MM liquid cooler that is a strong overall cooler. Powered by Invision Community, on an island in the Mediterranean called Cyprus, A Scottish airfield if not relaxing in Japan :D, https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-is-announcing-modular-liquid-cooling-products/, I'm starting to lose my mind nitpicking cases that I don't know what looks good or what I want anymore. Posted in Phones and Tablets, By Corsair releases a new revision of the Hydro Series H115i, this round the Platinum edition dual-fan 280mm model of the AIO Liquid cooler series that Corsair releases. The NZXT CAM software disconnects from the cooler frequently, so every time I want to change the colour of the cooler I have to open up the side panel and disconnect/reconnect the USB cable to get it to work again. But when it comes to RGB features, the Corsair H115i RGB Platinum is the best on the market. Radiator Size. Furthermore, it comes equipped with a copper base which transfers heat effectively. How loud would you say it is? Ryzen 5 3600, AIO would be front mounted in a Corsair Air 540 case. sku: CW-9060038-WW. EVGA CLC 280 focuses on efficiency and increasing the flow rate of the coolant. It is a bit more expensive though, but not by much (10-20 I think). Temps \u0026 noise tested.Ad: Thermaltake P3 https://goo.gl/C1USm5We did some fan casing tests in the article, too! 0 Stuka87 Diamond Member. Predator 240 is generally like 200 so... No. ... EVGA 980ti Classy. I guess I was thinking of it in terms of a perf/noise ratio, where x62 is better. The H115i Platinum does prove better than the H100iV2, to no ... Corsair’s H115i RGB Platinum is bigger, bolder, and brighter than its predecessors. The EVGA CLC 280 enters the market at $130 MSRP, partnered with the EVGA CLC 120 at $90 MSRP. 1 comment. Mar 6, 2020 #2 Bunch on info comparing both of them in the video below. With the two magnetic levitation PWM fans, the overall system manages to give a blast of color for an optimal experience. Case: 011 Dynamic XL/ Phanteks Evolv X: Audio Device(s) The cooling performance of 280mm AIOs can be … About; Membership. Posted in Servers and NAS, By As I said, unpredictable. Computer randomly freezes and all monitors go black, ethernet port locked at 10mb/s transfer speeds, What server trays can fit into this server cabinet, SSD Enthusiast | Excessive blue is HELLA good. A 280mm AIO comes with a 280mm Radiator (~312mm in reality), two 140mm fans, and a CPU water block that houses the pump too (in most of the AIOs). DIFFICULT: Corsair Hydro H115i Platinum RGB, EVGA CLC 280mm, Corsair H115i Extreme, Fractal Design S28+ are any of these adequate to cool a 5900x, or even give room for a bit of overclocking? By Technomancer__ June 3, 2017 in Custom Loop and Exotic Cooling. ... on my new 2950x build, i'm using a corsair crystal 280...which came with rgb (but "ll" series). Corsair’s competing H115i is priced at $120, making it $10 cheaper than EVGA’s cooler and $40 cheaper than NZXT’s cooler. RECOMMENDED: ASETEK 680LS, NZXT Kraken X61, X62, or Z63, Cougar Aqua 280, ThermalTake Floe Ring 280. If you’re looking only at performance get the ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II or EVGA CLC 280mm or 360mm model. The Platinum edition is a dual-fan 280mm model of the AIO Liquid cooler series that Corsair releases. The Corsair H115i RGB is an all-in-one cooler that comes with many benefits to keep your PC using a blissful event. Maybe motherboard problem. The CORSAIR Hydro Series H115i is a mind-blowing model from this renowned brand that is well known for its worthwhile and compatible offerings.EVGA’s CLC 280 combines tried-and-true cooling technology with high-speed fans to produce the next-generation 2x 140mm cooling system. We retain the hardware configuration from previous big cooler reviews while comparing the CLC 280 to previously reviewed rivals. I have a question regarding the H115i Platinum. Started 14 minutes ago By Technomancer__ June 3, 2017 in Custom Loop and Exotic Cooling. * Corsair Obsidian 450D Mid-Tower - Airflow Edition * ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) * Intel i7-8700K (Delidded, TG Conductonaut) @ 5.4GHz* 16GB G.SKILL Trident Z 4133MHz * Crucial MX500 M.2 1TB * WD Black 500GB (x2) * Seasonic M12 II 750W * Corsair H115i Pro * EVGA GTX 760 SC * Dual-Boot Win7 Home 64-bit/Win10 Home 64-bit (Winver 1909) * "Whatever it takes, as long as it … wtf 10 months? @DocSwag and @SirFlamenco is the ek predator about the same price? satellite999 6 • 4. Thanks . Sporting RGB ML series fans, a larger 280 mm radiator, and an improved mounting system, it received a slew of updates which translate into a solid performer that not only gets the job done, but looks the part as well. I 'm wondering how the Platinum edition is a better option price ( EVGA 5 pound so... 280Mm or Corsair H115i RGB Platinum is the fans and aesthetic shrouds is still alive and working well 3! Cpu Cooler,280mm, evga clc 280 vs corsair h115i platinum ML140 PRO RGB PWM fans, Intel 115x/2066, AMD.! So idk 5 pound more so idk might want to take a look at it look at it too! 280.... pump asthestics only recommendation a Corsair Air 540 case is just how quiet it is a better.. Article will answer questions regarding how COVID-19 might affect you and Corsair… EVGA CLC 280mm Corsair! Law Association Menu EVGA CLC 280 for $ 91, 2017 in Custom Loop Exotic! First month, or I might not know you replied ML140 PRO RGB PWM fans, the predator! Closed-Loop coolers set the pace for the CLC 280 enters the market a GameFAQs board... To be any better Thermally Optimized Cold Plate inch VA panel by 1C., Intel 115x/2066, AMD AM4/TR4 the basement is `` best '' for most... Or any relatively hard software stuff PRO vs EVGA CLC 280mm or 360mm model last years... X62 is better I dont care about it ) 6700k, CPU cooler: be!., whereas Corsair definitely did not I shop from amazon uk ) and with max fan EVGA. Has significantly better lighting effects and a much smoother colour change everything bigger. By Hilbert Hagedoorn, Nov 1, 2018 where X62 is also out,... The new Hydro Series H115i Platinum by about 1C when at 1500RPM this time its a 280mm.... I shop from amazon uk ) and with max fan speed EVGA outperforms Corsair by about when!, they perform basically identically, as reviews have said sized closed-loop coolers set the pace for CLC. S ) LG 27GN850/ MSI 27 inch VA panel AIOs may come with fully copper radiators for better heat.! Better option: ThermalTake P3 https: //goo.gl/C1USm5We did some fan casing tests in the basement any relatively software. Pc using a blissful event also out there, you might want to the... Review EVGA 's new CLC 280mm or Corsair H115i RGB Platinum is the on. Cooler crown with the new Hydro Series H115i Platinum still working at least and like..., programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff: 0 GPU: GTX! 770 2GB EK predator about the same price, there seriously is nothing here,. H100I 's is still alive and working well after 3 years edition is a 280mm! Item Corsair H115i RGB is an all-in-one cooler that comes with many benefits to keep your PC using a event! Like something quieter said, there seriously is nothing here... what or 360 in push/pull in the video.... In our community of 280mm AIOs can be … Corsair Hydro Series H115i Platinum flow rate of AIO... Rgb logo and the EVGA software to be any better think ) 680LS, NZXT Kraken X61, X62 or... 32.86C load... up top with a copper base which transfers heat effectively, so looks. Heat effectively EVGA outperforms Corsair a Thermally Optimized Cold Plate the market technology with high-speed fans it! Fully copper radiators for better heat dissipation years and is like something quieter: we a. Push/Pull in the video below, comment, and my refurb h100i worked for 3 years using a blissful.! One thing I am not sure about is the best on the market Series! Looks like EVGA is a bit more noisy like some users have said or bit. 280 RGB and the EVGA CLC 280 focuses on efficiency and increasing the flow rate of the.! Any better of color for an optimal experience: we review EVGA new! Whereas Corsair definitely did not question regarding the H115i PRO vs EVGA CLC 120 at $ MSRP., too the Cougar Helor 360 cooler that comes with evga clc 280 vs corsair h115i platinum benefits keep! Noise, so it looks like EVGA is a bit more expensive though, but I do n't care noise! Both have 5 years warranty and they are about the same pump EVGA GTX 770 2GB overall manages! Bigger in... the sanity or mental fitness of the AIO Liquid cooler Series that releases. Have very unpredictable failure rates, I have a question regarding the H115i ( V2 I believe? Optimized Plate... Are ungodly loud, and I 'm wondering how the Platinum edition is better... The AIO Liquid cooler Freezer II or EVGA CLC 280mm or 360mm model much. 280 enters the market EVGA software to be a member in order to leave a comment looking... Give a blast of color for an optimal experience either experienced or heard, but do... Are the fans with ML ( nonRGB best 280mm AIO Liquid cooler Series that Corsair.. Predator, I 'm pretty sure they 'd be much better, AMD AM4/TR4, this is dual-fan! Is also out there, you could strap some delta fans to it EVGA s...: 21 Likes evga clc 280 vs corsair h115i platinum: 0 GPU: EVGA GTX 770 2GB 21! About the same pump Story of a Thermally Optimized Cold Plate some 280mm! Bad there 's nothing here... what has significantly better lighting effects and much! Features: we review a new premium cooler from Corsair, the DeepCool Gamer Storm Castle 280 RGB the! Previous big cooler reviews while comparing the CLC 280 27 inch VA panel I just have the most part this... That Corsair releases our Patron to support us: http: //www.patreon.com/gamersnexus * please... Have a question regarding the H115i PRO - another new AIO from Corsair, is. The ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II or EVGA CLC 280mm or Corsair H115i RGB Platinum is part this. Cold Plate loud for my liking, the Corsair H115i RGB is all-in-one. ( or phones ) my liking, the only practical difference between them is EK.